Ying-Ting Shen:
Juggling Realities
We are not alone. Photo by Yu-Ching Chiang. Courtesy of Artist.
Jue Yang
You studied interior architecture and you now work with installations. To you, there is not really a line between art and design, and the disciplines are intertwined. Have you applied for any funding where you are asked to define yourself either as an artist or a designer?
Ying-Ting Shen
I have applied for Mondrianfonds. I got rejected because they thought my background was too design-oriented. It feels that these two words — artist and designer — are already defined by people who think these are two completely different things. So when I introduce myself, I need to pick one based on the situation. I will tell some people that I am a designer and I tell other people that I am an artist.JY
Recently you were working on a project with Het Nieuwe Instituut. What did you tell them?YTS
I told them I am both an artist and a designer! People at Het Nieuwe Instituut were quite open. The project we did was a kind of product, but the process was very experimental. So the concept of what we did was art, but the way we executed it followed the rules of design.JY
Let’s talk about the artist visa. You and I have been through the same visa process as non-EU citizens. We both worked very hard to meet visa regulations. How is that going for you right now?
YTS
I had a lot of struggles last year. I was applying for it around the end of October. I had submitted everything I could, but I was still missing one project to meet the requirement. I put a lot of effort to find funding or any opportunity for an exhibition. I responded to many open calls. Right now, I feel a bit more chill. I feel I have already done everything that I can do. The rest is just fate, which I cannot control.JY
How many things have you applied for during that period?YTS
I wrote most of the applications as a duo or collective. Overall, we did 13 applications in two or three months. It was more difficult than applying for a job. Every open call had different requests and different themes. You need to think about how to stick to the theme, which means you need to rewrite, or even rethink or remake your project, to fit into the open call.JY
So to add some context: the reason non-EU artists like us need to find a project or an exhibition or any kind of opportunity is to prove that we have at least three partner organizations. The immigration will only consider us as viable visa candidates when we meet this requirement. When I was going through this crunch period, I felt like I was doing three years worth of work in one.YTS
I feel the same way. You just need to produce a lot and also contact a lot of people.JY
How does it feel when you don’t get the things you apply for?
YTS
We got 4 out of 13 open calls. Before I heard back from an open call I applied for, I always felt that they had already picked someone else. As for how I feel about rejections, it depends on how they reject me. With Mondriaanfonds, they sent us a letter with detailed explanations about why we didn't get it. I applied with my partner, and we got our rejection for different reasons. That was nice because it didn't feel like a default message. I felt they respected our application and they actually spent time reading our proposal. For some organization, I sent an email but never heard back. They didn't even bother to reply.JY
If there were no visa requirements over your head, what would be the ideal way for you to work here in the Netherlands?
YTS
Here I'm more focused on my research and installation art. I would prefer to have a freelance job on the side. I enjoy design jobs. Right now, I'm doing several remote projects in interior design and graphic design from Taiwan. These projects currently finance my life. Although the income is tight, and I don't have a lot of savings.But realistically, I know it'll be difficult to find a freelance design job here. I don't speak Dutch, at least not now. If you do interior design, you need to be on site to manage the construction and Dutch is a must. Also, I don't have any connection to easily get freelance jobs.
JY
Being a freelancer and being an artist are both precarious positions. It’s a lot when you are navigating both fields.YTS
I feel I need to be financially stable in order to have a good head space to produce work. I ask myself how I can be more commercial. I would like to be able to sell art pieces or collaborate with a company in a substantial way. Maybe to be commissioned by the company and create works for their interior space.
Collective Memory - Nature.
Photo by Yu-Ching Chiang. Courtesy of Artist.
Photo by Yu-Ching Chiang. Courtesy of Artist.
JY
How busy are you now?YTS
I just finished the project with Het Nieuwe Instituut yesterday. And next Friday I have an opening in Showroom Mama. We need to build up the exhibition on Wednesday. We have less than a week to do that. We are also making new work for this show. So I'm very tired. I work 12 hours a day, more or less, and I stay up late. My bedtime is around 2am. I don't really have weekends.JY
Do you have any mental space left when you work for long hours and for many days in a row?YTS
It depends on the weather. Now it's sunny, and I am able to work with focus. But during the winter I couldn't do that. I would sleep for the whole day. I recently started jogging with my friend twice every week. When I exercise in the morning, I feel more energetic and more healthy to go on with the rest of the day. But generally, I enjoy working. I think I am a workaholic.JY
You're working in your home space, which is quite small. How long have you worked in this space?YTS
We’ve worked here for 16 months. If I only have to work on the computer, what I have now is okay. But when I need to cut materials and build up installations, it's better to have a studio outside the home.JY
So how do you build out installations in such a small space?YTS
It's very difficult. When I need to build out something, I need to think about how it can be deconstructed and cleaned up afterwards. For example, there is a hook above my bed, where I build and hang my installations. When I go to bed, I need to take them down. When I need to cut something, I go to the balcony. During the winter, when it was too cold, I went to the hallway to cut materials.
The hook above the bed & cutting metal sticks on the balcony.
Photos by Yu-Ching Chiang. Courtesy of Artist.
Photos by Yu-Ching Chiang. Courtesy of Artist.
JY
Are you searching for a studio now?YTS
I signed up for SKAR. They send a monthly newsletter, but I haven’t had time to check the spaces. I know it's probably more efficient to contact them directly. A friend of a friend just found a space for their studio, in the former glass factory in Schiedam. So I asked the guy if we could also have the studio there. I don’t know anything definite yet.JY
Do you feel your life is stable now?YTS
Because I am still waiting for the visa decision, it's hard to say. I don't have the certainty to commit to a studio space for a year or to sign up for a long-term project. Before I know about my visa, it's difficult to say what I do or don’t want.